Brexit

What's next?

Theresa May's Deal
8
18%
No deal
12
27%
People's vote
21
48%
Something else (pls specify)
3
7%
 
Total votes: 44
bilky asko
Posts: 1100
Joined: Sat 08 Nov, 2008 19.48

Tue 02 Apr, 2019 07.48

Philip wrote:
Mon 01 Apr, 2019 22.22
What an absolute fucking shambles.
Not really surprising though - the second round of this process had little point when any, every, or no option could be voted on the first time round.
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barcode
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Joined: Wed 29 Aug, 2007 19.36

Wed 22 May, 2019 20.10

Set top box
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue 23 Jul, 2019 12.43

Tue 23 Jul, 2019 12.46

Boris Johnson is the new prime minister, and so it begins.
all new Phil
Posts: 1526
Joined: Sun 13 Feb, 2005 00.04
Location: Next door to Hell

Fri 09 Aug, 2019 21.17

So... are we going to leave with no deal? Is it going to be chaos?

I think what we’re seeing now is a game of chicken between BoJo and the EU. I think one side *might* blink before October 31st, but I think there’s more chance of neither doing so.

There is clearly some sort of strategy going on to spook the EU into thinking we’ve given up on reaching a deal. Just seems a bit late now. I don’t think parliament will be able to prevent no deal from happening despite all the talk of a national government, votes of no confidence etc.

And whatever happens, I think the Tories will win a majority at the next election. It feels like Labour have given up.
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gottago
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu 29 Jan, 2009 19.50

Sat 10 Aug, 2019 11.27

all new Phil wrote:
Fri 09 Aug, 2019 21.17

And whatever happens, I think the Tories will win a majority at the next election. It feels like Labour have given up.
I’m not so sure about this actually. As we saw from the by election last week the Brexit Party scum vote ate into what otherwise would have been a reasonably comfortable Tory victory, coupled with the Greens and Plaid standing aside to give the LibDems the best shot at victory. I read an article that said if you look at quite a few seats across the south that the Tories won at the last election the Lib Dems quite a not too distant second. It could well be that the Brexit Party eat at more of the share in Tory seats, sealing more victories for the Lib Dems under a voting system that the Lib Dems ironically campaigned to abolish and the Tories were so desperate to keep.

Labour’s still practicing the same position of cluelessly avoiding open goal after open goal of opportunity. Literally any other leader of this party would be leading them to an extraordinary victory at another general election. What a shame they’re still lumped with this abominable leader at such a crucial time.

If you haven’t already seen it I highly recommend the Netflix doc The Great Hack which shows just how corrupt and unbalanced the referendum was. Baffling that we’re still continuing to pursue something so illegitimate but such is the state of the political leaders and their parties at the moment.
bilky asko
Posts: 1100
Joined: Sat 08 Nov, 2008 19.48

Sat 10 Aug, 2019 21.57

Isn't this another regurgitation of Carole Cadwalladr's work? Far too willing to believe whistleblowers and its own marketing, and the supposed power of this advertising.
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cwathen
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 17.28

Sun 11 Aug, 2019 19.56

gottago wrote:
Sat 10 Aug, 2019 11.27
Labour’s still practicing the same position of cluelessly avoiding open goal after open goal of opportunity. Literally any other leader of this party would be leading them to an extraordinary victory at another general election. What a shame they’re still lumped with this abominable leader at such a crucial time.
Yet Corbyn seems to be about the most secure party leader of all atm and he knows it - witness his public humiliation of Emily Thornberry by pulling her from PMQs which was obviously punishment after her statements about believing Labour should support a second referendum when she spoke on the BBC during the EU electiction results. The PLP have already tried to remove him once and failed due to the three pounders just returning him again. Unless the Momentum group collapses he is effectively impossible to remove .

Quite why a group made up predominantly of staunch remainers don't seem to have realised they've elected one of the most euro-sceptic MPs in the house as their leader yet think he's going to champion their goals of stopping Brexit I can't fathom.

After 3 years Corbyn has finally bowed to pressure and been dragged kicking and screaming to opposing a 'damaging Tory Brexit' and will now campaign for a second referendum with Labour backing remain...all whilst Labour is in opposition and unable to deliver it, which I'm sure he's aware of. He can talk the talk knowing he won't be able to walk the walk.

Despite his rhetoric he won't commit Labour to holding a second referendum were they to get into power and be in a position to deliver one. This truly baffles the mind...how on earth can you have a policy to campaign for something in opposition which you won't commit to doing were you in power? Yet Corbyn does, and his largely pro-remain followers don't bat an eyelid.

Today's papers apparently report that up to 100 Labour MPs are willing to defy him on this if there is a snap election. Will this work? I doubt it. Corbyn and his band of followers will just deselect/sack/sideline/humiliate the lot of them whilst Momentum supporters which continue to cling to their vision that Jezza is the man will make it impossible for Labour to have a sensible, moderate, competent leader.
gottago
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu 29 Jan, 2009 19.50

Sun 18 Aug, 2019 11.28

bilky asko wrote:
Sat 10 Aug, 2019 21.57
Isn't this another regurgitation of Carole Cadwalladr's work? Far too willing to believe whistleblowers and its own marketing, and the supposed power of this advertising.
Carole features a lot, as does the continuing campaign by Banks and the like to discredit her, but it is mainly following Brittany Kaiser. The evidence is solid. One of the most disturbing bits is how Trinidad’s election was manipulated by Cambridge Analytica by encouraging young people not to vote.

Today’s Times leak is yet more evidence of what a total disaster No Deal will be. It’s not even worst case scenario stuff, simply a ‘most likely scenario’.
all new Phil
Posts: 1526
Joined: Sun 13 Feb, 2005 00.04
Location: Next door to Hell

Sun 18 Aug, 2019 13.45

So Owen Jones was attacked recently. Clearly wouldn’t wish this on anybody, and nor would the vast majority of us.

Straight away the finger of blame was pointed at “the far right” and talk turns to how Brexit has emboldened them to do something like this. Which puts two questions in my mind:
1) I thought all Brexiteers were 65+ year-old gammons who just wanted blue passports etc etc? (Paging james2001)
2) Why do the far right only seem to come about when the far left take control of the Labour Party?

I wish the left would take *some* responsibility for their role in coarsening political debate, especially when anybody to the right of Ed Miliband is smeared as a hard right fascist, and calling for Tories to be lynched is the language of the shadow chancellor.

How have we got to a stage where people can’t be friendly with those they disagree with?
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cwathen
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 17.28

Mon 19 Aug, 2019 20.01

all new Phil wrote:
Sun 18 Aug, 2019 13.45
I wish the left would take *some* responsibility for their role in coarsening political debate, especially when anybody to the right of Ed Miliband is smeared as a hard right fascist, and calling for Tories to be lynched is the language of the shadow chancellor.
Yet they don't. I can't move on my Facebook without being assaulted daily by a barage of bullshit hard left clickbait being reshared (often by people who are my closest friends). I got told that if I voted Tory in the EU elections and my polling station was in a school then apparently I should've taken a shit in a cupboard before leaving. Every time anything remotely bad happens other clickbait will bang the drum about the 'evil Tory government'. Granted, they have become incompetent but I do genuinely believe many 'recent' Labour supporters hold an equally genuine belief that all Tory MPs are some sort of Mr. Burns type characters who sit at home rubbing their hands thinking about how they can screw people over next. It's gotten ridiculous.
How have we got to a stage where people can’t be friendly with those they disagree with?
Simply because too many people have taken on a hardened and entrenched position and are utterly unwilling to listen or compromise on anything. I believe that hard political views at either end of the spectrum are equally paranoid, ridiculous, and downright dangerous. That, and they just plain don't work in a democracy as there will never be enough of a consensus to create a majority from those views. Witness where we are now where we seem stuck in an era of minority governments balanced on a thin knife edge (equally reflected in public opinion too).

There is no way out of it with Jezza and his band of nutters in control of Labour, but equally the Tories are in a no better position led by Bojo and his disciples. I sincerely hope that once Brexit is finally resolved (whenever that is) that both main parties bring back more progressive and balanced front benches and they move back to the centre of politics, which is the only place from which anything significant can be achieved.
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