The Labour Party: Where Next?

robschneider
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed 14 Aug, 2013 14.53

So, Jeremy Corbyn has been re-elected leader of the Labour party.

In other news, Bears admit to defecating in the woods.

We all know why he's won - lots of new members, students, political subversives, people who don't want to work, immigrants etc. - but in my opinion a massive own goal has been scored.

The uncomfortable truth is this. Corbyn is great if you want a subsidised lifestyle. But in the real world, most people want to know how you're going to pay for it.

Let's also not forget this is a man who falsely claimed a train was full just a few weeks ago in order to fuel his own agenda. More coverage was given to Cameron and Piggate - a drunken student dare - than there was this act of fraud.

Today we became a one-party state. And although UKIP will, I believe, benefit from the working class vote (I use "working" in a literal sense as in getting a job and not leeching off the state ) this is not good for democracy.

Labour, you threw away your last chance. Good luck. You'll need it.

And of course, we all remember how well National Socialism mixes with Antisemitism...
woah
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun 28 Mar, 2010 12.39
Location: Sheffield

It's like reading a comment piece in the Daily Wail! It even includes a swipe at immigrants and people on benefits, as if every single one of them are intent on stealing huge sums of money from the state.

For the record I don't think Corbyn's policies include "lots of extra money for immigrants and benefits claimants".

I'm not Corbyn's biggest fan either but I'm hoping the party can find some middle ground so that they can become united again, and I am hoping that Corbyn can accept compromise and lead the party better than he does now. Whether that happens remains to be seen.

On the train incident - yes that was a bit misleading, I wish he had gone on the huge numbers of trains that are massively overcrowded.

Cameron and the Tories have done many things worse than the alleged pig incident, and the train incident, that's for sure.
Martin Phillp
Posts: 1016
Joined: Wed 11 May, 2011 01.28

Chuka Umunna is rumoured to be planning to run against Corbyn in yet another leadership contest.

What Momentum who have infiltrated the Labour Party fail to realise is that Corbyn is not PM material and need to attract floating voters who tend to vote Conservative, which is how Tony Blair got into power. Labour's core northern vote could be eroded to UKIP and they've lost Scotland to the SNP with more socialist values.

Whatever they do, you can guarantee a Conservative government until 2025, despite their own infighting over Brexit.
TVF's London Lite.
robschneider
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed 14 Aug, 2013 14.53

Momentum Kids = Hitler Youth
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Neil
Posts: 591
Joined: Sun 06 Nov, 2005 17.02
Location: Manchester

Martin Phillp wrote:Chuka Umunna is rumoured to be planning to run against Corbyn in yet another leadership contest.
If true, this shows that moderate and 'light right' Labour really haven't got a clue. The last thing we need at the moment is another leadership battle when Labour should be uniting (yes, behind Corbybn , who I recognise has plenty of faults) to actually form an effective opposition to the Tories on Brexit, the wrecking of the NHS and the increase in those struggling to survice in a prosperous country.
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Neil
Posts: 591
Joined: Sun 06 Nov, 2005 17.02
Location: Manchester

robschneider wrote:Momentum Kids = Hitler Youth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
robschneider
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed 14 Aug, 2013 14.53

woah wrote:It's like reading a comment piece in the Daily Wail!
Ah that catch all comeback for any attack on the left. It's like how socialists like to point out the Mail's support of the Nazi party, not understanding that it's a German abbreviation for, er, National Socialism.

I don't read the Mail because it's full of shit.
woah
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun 28 Mar, 2010 12.39
Location: Sheffield

robschneider wrote:
woah wrote:It's like reading a comment piece in the Daily Wail!
Ah that catch all comeback for any attack on the left. It's like how socialists like to point out the Mail's support of the Nazi party, not understanding that it's a German abbreviation for, er, National Socialism.

I don't read the Mail because it's full of shit.
Sorry to insult you. Perhaps another mild-mannered newspaper like the Express?
DTV
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon 12 Mar, 2012 19.27

robschneider wrote:
woah wrote:It's like reading a comment piece in the Daily Wail!
Ah that catch all comeback for any attack on the left. It's like how socialists like to point out the Mail's support of the Nazi party, not understanding that it's a German abbreviation for, er, National Socialism.

I don't read the Mail because it's full of shit.
And a bit like how the politically illiterate show themselves up by demonstrating their lack of knowledge of Nazi ideology. I could go in depth about how the National Socialist name was pre-Hitler anyway and not to mention the fact that fascism's use of lukewarm socialist language and policy was nothing more than a cynical attempt to gain working class support and in fact their policies in government, particularly in Germany, were corporatist rather than socialist. Plus, of course, many of the members of the SPD (the socialist party) were some of the first to be detained by Hitler under the Enabling Act. But then again rather than highlighting your stupidity I have other things I could be doing, while you could perhaps read a book on politics before posting things that highlight your ignorance on the topic.

Aside from that matter, I'm surprised that many people are so surprised that Labour are infighting while in opposition - it is pretty much the entire history of the Labour Party. They always come round from bouts of it - they did in the 1910s, the 30s, the 50s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s etc. The history of the Labour Party is the history of the battle between democratic socialism and social democracy (and more recently neoliberalism). Foreign and defence policy is to Labour what Europe (and before that free trade) is to the Conservatives - something the party will never agree on. Speaking of which, the Conservatives are likely to implode over whatever deal comes out of Europe - the hard Brexiteers will be apoplectic if it's a soft Brexit and vice versa. Plus UKIP will be irrelevant, the Lib Dems are already fucked, the Greens can never shake off their stereotype and the SNP could have fucked off by 2020 - so party politics is interesting to say the least.
DTV
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon 12 Mar, 2012 19.27

Martin Phillp wrote:What Momentum who have infiltrated the Labour Party fail to realise is that Corbyn is not PM material and need to attract floating voters who tend to vote Conservative, which is how Tony Blair got into power. Labour's core northern vote could be eroded to UKIP and they've lost Scotland to the SNP with more socialist values.
Blair's victory was from many more factors than winning over floating Conservatives. Most of the swing would probably have happened even if Kinnock was leader given the state of Conservatives at that stage. The fact is far more Conservative voters didn't bother voting in 1997 than switched to the Labour (drop in Con vote = 4.5 million, Lab inc. in vote was only 1.9 million (plus Lib Dem vote fell by almost 0.7 mil so they may have gone red as well)) and it wasn't a particularly big swing in ideology anyhow. Labour's big issue is that there are between 2 and 4 million people in the UK who identify as Labour who simply didn't vote at the last election, between 30 and 40% of non-voters in the EU Ref identified as Labour. I think for many of them (largely working class Northerners) New Labour let them down, but they wouldn't betray their party by voting for someone else. Labour's big issue is apathy - their vote has decreased by 4/5 million in 20 years but it hasn't really gone anywhere. Can Corbyn win them back? I'm not convinced - plus the number of centrists who fucked off could be roughly the same.

I think it is also largely a myth that Labour is losing large numbers of Northern working class voters to UKIP. If you look at local elections and the general election it was not Labour who are declining in votes or councillors - it is opposition parties like the Lib Dems and the Conservatives. Voter mirgration analysis consistently shows that between 5-20% of UKIP voters are ex-Labour, compared to 35%-55% being ex-Conservative. They have always posed a greater risk to the Conservatives, and Diane James's 'Thatcher is my hero' routine is hardly going to win over the Labour heartlands. Plus UKIP are a spent force now - they can either become a socially conservative party or an anti-immigration party - both things done better elsewhere. They shot up in 5 years, got what they wanted and they'll probably be dead in 5 years. They have been by far the biggest losers in local council by-elections since May.

I do however agree that Corbyn is not an election winner - he's a Bennite after all. Who I do think could replace him, though, is someone like Clive Lewis - MP for Norwich South - who is of a more Bevanite, pragmatic position and who is competent and media friendly etc. Sort of like a left-wing Blair.

But thinking of possible Labour splitters - there has never been a better time to start a centrist party. The Lib Dems are in ruin, May is likely alienating moderate Conservatives already (some polling organisations have halved their lead in a month) and Corbyn is doing the same in Labour. They could do very well.
bilky asko
Posts: 1171
Joined: Sat 08 Nov, 2008 19.48

UKIP aren't the biggest losers in terms of seats, though, going by this graph I saw on Facebook (posted by a Lib Dem supporter):

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Though I presume you mean in percentage terms.
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