Public Transport in your particular part of the region

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MarkAshley
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Thu 17 May, 2018 22.55

cwathen wrote:
Thu 17 May, 2018 21.22
For GWR, I think major investment in new trains would be best placed by a bulk order of new DMU's which they will run alongside, rather than instead of, all of their existing DMUs (OK, maybe not Pacers) to increase capacity and frequency.
The emboldened bits here are where I would like to raise a further issue. Just how much longer is diesel electric going to be a viable medium on British railways? I live in a predominantly "third rail" EMU area, but I note from the past few decades that most of the services heading towards the West (now in the GWR franchise) are 2-rail diesel only services. And my holiday a fortnight ago in North Wales saw nothing but diesel trains. The Intercity 125 series that litters the network is a diesel electric set from the 1970s.

But in the media I keep seeing electrification plans being canned.

North of London (the pre HS2 routes from London to Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds etc) everything seems to be overhead electric service. Hell, here in the the south east we have had 750v electric third rail services since the 1930s.

I think what my ramblings are pointing towards is: why, nearly 100 years later is so much of the country still using diesel?
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all new Phil
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Joined: Sun 13 Feb, 2005 00.04
Location: Next door to Hell

Fri 18 May, 2018 08.29

They’ve recently electrified a large amount of the line near me - but not all of it. So the bit that branches off to where I live (about 5 miles of so of line) can still only accommodate diesel trains. Which seems silly.
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thegeek
Posts: 509
Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2005 12.35

Fri 18 May, 2018 13.38

Alexia wrote:
Thu 17 May, 2018 20.41
MarkAshley wrote:
Thu 17 May, 2018 19.13
How long has that branding been ready and waiting in the wings?
At least March, but the TM was only filed yesterday. Gone through in a day. The bods at Ebbw Bridge must have LOVED that.

Very reminiscient of the new GWR logo, the way the bits point up and down like that.

Waiting to see what the new Wales rail franchise name / branding is going to be.
London Reconnections has been doing some digging in this thread: https://twitter.com/lonrec/status/996745787051773953
cwathen
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 17.28

Fri 18 May, 2018 18.59

MarkAshley wrote:The emboldened bits here are where I would like to raise a further issue. Just how much longer is diesel electric going to be a viable medium on British railways? I live in a predominantly "third rail" EMU area, but I note from the past few decades that most of the services heading towards the West (now in the GWR franchise) are 2-rail diesel only services. And my holiday a fortnight ago in North Wales saw nothing but diesel trains.
I would say a very long time, since as far as I am aware there are no plans to electrify the entire network (and even if they did, there are still multiple standards in use - eg whilst new electrification is generally 25KV overhead I'm not aware of any plans to change the DC third rail system in use where you live).

Whilst fossil fuel powered traction (and diesel in particular) is extremely unfashionable at the moment, I think it is acknowledged that when it comes to heavy vehicles like trains there isn't really anything suitable to replace diesel (apart from electrification - which also begs the question of where the electric comes from - in most cases from power stations that are oil or gas fired so fossil fuels are being used anyway) nor is there likely to be for decades, which will continue to see demand for diesel powered stock.

New DMU's are being built right now - the class 195's to replace Northern's pacers.
MarkAshley wrote:The Intercity 125 series that litters the network is a diesel electric set from the 1970s.
However, the body shell itself is basically the only original part left in most HST's. Everything else from the engine to the seats is barely a decade old in the bulk of them. These trains may have been around since the 70's but due to the investment that has gone into them they still provide a very high quality and perfectly modern rail experience (manual doors aside - but even they are going to be replaced with electric ones for DDA compliance). There is nothing wrong with them and no need to retire them.

At least though the HSTs being retired from GWR service are being cascaded to other operators (or going off lease but being stored presumably to be leased again), but SWR are about withdraw all their 455s and due to them being specialised third rail commuter units it is unlikely anyone else will take them. Most if not all of them are almost certain to be scrapped. Yes they are 35 year old trains but they had new traction equipment fitted just 3 years ago (at a cost of £40 Million) and they are well suited for the commuter services they run - with a cosmetic refurb (and maybe a toilet, maybe even aircon) they are quite fit to go on for another 20 years.

It's an absolute waste to spend hundreds of millions on new trains where the existing ones have nothing wrong with them.
Martin Phillp
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Joined: Wed 11 May, 2011 01.28

Fri 18 May, 2018 21.17

I take it SWR will get those 455s replaced with more ironing board sets?
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cwathen
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Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 17.28

Fri 18 May, 2018 21.55

Martin Phillp wrote:
Fri 18 May, 2018 21.17
I take it SWR will get those 455s replaced with more ironing board sets?
Yep, yet more Aventras. Class 701 is already being knocked up at Bombardier right now and planned to go into service next year.

I wonder how many press releases about 'wide gangways' will crop up in their spiel about how brilliantly easy moving about on these new units will be, ignoring the fact that you can't move between units working in multiple on an Aventra, unlike the outgoing 455s which have end gangway connections.
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Pete
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Location: Dundee

Sat 19 May, 2018 10.52

We keep seeing random GWR (first branded) HSTs appearing in the sidings in Dundee, presumably being stored before refurbs. They often have one new ScotRail Intercity branded loco at one end and an old one at the other.

The ScotRail revamp of the Intercity fleet shows what an incredible train it is, really excited to have these rather than 190s to go to Aberdeen / Glasgow.

One thing that I wonder about is what's happening to the 225s? They're also in good nick having had a massive refurb by GNER.
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cwathen
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Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 17.28

Sat 19 May, 2018 17.55

Pete wrote:
Sat 19 May, 2018 10.52
We keep seeing random GWR (first branded) HSTs appearing in the sidings in Dundee, presumably being stored before refurbs. They often have one new ScotRail Intercity branded loco at one end and an old one at the other.

The ScotRail revamp of the Intercity fleet shows what an incredible train it is, really excited to have these rather than 190s to go to Aberdeen / Glasgow.
Out of interest, what level of refurb is done when they're turned out again? Is it just a rebranding, or are they replacing the manual doors with electric ones as GWR will be doing on the HST's they're keeping?
Critique
Posts: 947
Joined: Mon 17 Aug, 2009 10.37
Location: Suffolk

Sat 19 May, 2018 18.19

Yes, sliding doors are going on (they're needed for compliance soon aren't they). Along with the exterior work, the toilets are getting tanks, and both standard and first class are getting updated to some extent. Standard sees the biggest change with new seating and all, whilst they're keeping the new first class stuff GWR put in, apart from some cosmetic tweaks.

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/netwo ... mage=26333
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MarkAshley
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Location: Near the Bottom

Sat 19 May, 2018 19.35

Critique wrote:
Sat 19 May, 2018 18.19
...the toilets are getting tanks...
It's 2018 and we're still shitting onto the tracks...
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gottago
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu 29 Jan, 2009 19.50

Sat 19 May, 2018 22.16

MarkAshley wrote:
Sat 19 May, 2018 19.35
Critique wrote:
Sat 19 May, 2018 18.19
...the toilets are getting tanks...
It's 2018 and we're still shitting onto the tracks...
Genuinely staggering that this still exists.
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