Public Transport in your particular part of the region

[cwathen]

The interiors of the doors are also being resprayed, and at least one set will get new upholstery. (That image is of one undone coach and a done coach.)

This all doesn't seem to quite compare with what happened last time. Back then, they were already rolling out dynamic lines to the HSTs in late 2005 under the old FGW franchise (and I always thought it was a mistake to go with plain blue on the power cars when the prototype MTUs had dynamic lines on them too), there were a good few vehicles done by the time the franchise officially started in 2006, and then First became an absolute machine at getting everything changed across the whole fleet quickly, to the point that by the end of 2007 most stock had been done, with the few remaining HST vehicles done in early 2008 and IIRC the final DMUs in late 2008.

And by 'being done' it wasn't just a respray, the interiors were done at the same time (which was a complete gut and refit for the HST carriages). Particularly with the HSTs (where the power cars got MTU engines at the same time), the whole fleet was transformed beyond all recognition in only a couple of years.

Yet now they're sending stock to Kilmarnock which is being outshopped with only an exterior respray (so presumably will have to go out of service a second time to have the interior done at a later date), and I've heard rumours that there will be no specific programme to get the stock rebranded to GWR, it will just wait until standard maintenance schedules dictate. I've heard other rumours that Kilmarnock was still applying fresh dynamic lines when outshopping stock as recently as a couple of months ago. Quite apart from rumours, at least one 150/2 set (I can't remember which off the top of my head) was repainted into plain blue livery only within the last few months when it was already known that the FGW brand was going.

At this rate, this could end up like Intercity and Regional Railways, where the livery survived until 2004ish on some vehicles, years after privatised companies took over, and I hate to think how long it will take to redo the interiors.

[madmusician]

Couple of random things from me:

- Way back in July (but forgot to post it here at the time) I travelled in a new livery Abelio Greater Anglia train for the first time. I've been in a few with redone interiors but this was the first (and, thus far, only) time I'd encountered a new exterior. It was very Virgin-early-2000s with its doors painted with a diagonal effect and silver carriages.

I think you might be talking about the train affectionately (?) known as the Pretendolino, which Virgin Trains West Coast used after a derailment meant that they lost one of their Pendolino trains, so they had to use a Class 90 with coaching stock. As it a result it has a red Virgin interior and received the standard Virgin livery. However, Virgin stopped requiring it so I think Greater Anglia picked it up and it's now in service with them. It hasn't received the new livery (which as far as I can tell is white with red doors and nothing more exciting), which is why it still has striped doors and is silver. As a result I don't think Greater Anglia have had anything to do with the interior or exterior, but I'm sure they'll happily take the credit!

If we are on about a same thing this video shows it:

Yes, that's the one. And that makes a lot of sense re the Virgin link - it really was noticeable. Disappointing that the white with red doors livery is the new standard - I had hoped that this silver exterior was going to be rolled out across the fleet. It makes sense then that I've only seen the one train with the silver livery! Having said that, I do like the new interiors that AGA are putting in across the fleet. Much nicer and fresher.

Alexia - thanks for the info re Thameslink. I obviously neglected to notice the change of provider when I was down here in January for a job interview!

[WillPS]

The interiors of the doors are also being resprayed, and at least one set will get new upholstery. (That image is of one undone coach and a done coach.)

This all doesn't seem to quite compare with what happened last time. Back then, they were already rolling out dynamic lines to the HSTs in late 2005 under the old FGW franchise (and I always thought it was a mistake to go with plain blue on the power cars when the prototype MTUs had dynamic lines on them too), there were a good few vehicles done by the time the franchise officially started in 2006, and then First became an absolute machine at getting everything changed across the whole fleet quickly, to the point that by the end of 2007 most stock had been done, with the few remaining HST vehicles done in early 2008 and IIRC the final DMUs in late 2008.

And by 'being done' it wasn't just a respray, the interiors were done at the same time (which was a complete gut and refit for the HST carriages). Particularly with the HSTs (where the power cars got MTU engines at the same time), the whole fleet was transformed beyond all recognition in only a couple of years.

Yet now they're sending stock to Kilmarnock which is being outshopped with only an exterior respray (so presumably will have to go out of service a second time to have the interior done at a later date), and I've heard rumours that there will be no specific programme to get the stock rebranded to GWR, it will just wait until standard maintenance schedules dictate. I've heard other rumours that Kilmarnock was still applying fresh dynamic lines when outshopping stock as recently as a couple of months ago. Quite apart from rumours, at least one 150/2 set (I can't remember which off the top of my head) was repainted into plain blue livery only within the last few months when it was already known that the FGW brand was going.

At this rate, this could end up like Intercity and Regional Railways, where the livery survived until 2004ish on some vehicles, years after privatised companies took over, and I hate to think how long it will take to redo the interiors.

The reengining process takes a long time, and HST Mk3 sets can't be hauled without HST powercars. It made sense to do as much to the sets as possible while the powercars were away out of service. They wont need that sort of downtime again; and if they do it wont be for many years yet.

It is quite normal for stock to be repainted and refitted separately. Every modern paintjob comes with a 'warranty' - and most ROSCOs are strict that paintwork must be kept within warranty - if that 150's warranty was up, the ROSCO would be sending it in come what may. Of course, a good paintjob can last 20 years (as things did in the BR years), but with things the way they are very little stock is painted to that standard and so frequent trips to the paintshop are the order of the day. By contrast, interiors do not have a set expiration date, so it's down to the TOC to do it as and when (not to say there are no outside factors - most TOCs commit to certain refits as part of their franchise or management contract commitments; and of course 2020).

[Alexia]

In terms of interior refits, some Arriva units are still wandering around with Valleys Lines interiors and right up until 2011 some Class 158 Alphaline units had Wales & West interiors and exteriors.

[Beep]

Thameslink and Great Northern are now under the auspices of Govia, who also run Southern and London Midland. Since July 25th the whole of Southern, Thameslink, Great Northern and Gatwick Express are all technically one franchise, but they retain their individual brands.

First Cap Con finished almost a year ago on 14-9-14.

GTR/GoVia held the original Thameslink private franchise before First CapitalDisconnect had it!

[cwathen]

So is everyone now "doing a Scotrail" with the branding? And if so, why are Virgin East Coast not part of this?

You also have situations like Stagecoach's franchises which use completely corporate Stagecoach branding but with generic sounding names (which in the case of SWT, are arguably misleading - one would reasonably assume that a company called 'South West Trains' would operate trains in the south west, not operate mainly in the South East but in a vaguely South Westerly direction from London largely on routes which used to be called Network SouthEast and with only a single route going to the South West at all)...

...which brings me neatly onto this. Didn't know whether to put this here or in the rebrand thread, but today on my way out of St Davids I saw a South West Trains class 159 in a new livery, the first I've seen of it and there don't seem to be any pictures on Google.

It's not dramatically different, the SWT logo has now been moved to the centre of the carriage under the windows (which fits in with the liveries on their other stock) and the colours now have jagged lines at the ends to break them up a bit. It doesn't seem dramatically different enough to bother doing it tbh.

I believe the old livery does take the award for longest standing livery since privatisation - apart from a couple of detail modifications (making the logo larger and changing the doors to solid colours for DDA compliance) it has been in use since 1998.

[Alexia]

I believe they're called "go-faster stripes"

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ukbuses/18057853595/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ianmartia ... fn5-msqgSw

[cwathen]

Noticed a few things lately - firstly, what on earth is the deal with this hideous new voice which has appeared on some of the PIS systems? (I've heard it at Exeter St Thomas, but not at the HSS stations yet or at Torquay, don't know how widespread it is). It literally sounds like Microsoft Sam from 2001, with awfully stilted speech. I've never been a huge fan of the voices on the ATOS system which got rolled out a few years ago anyway as they too suffer from some unnatural gaps in words (to say nothing of how the female voice says 'London Waterloo' as if there will be another station following), the old Amey-Datel system (the one with the bongs at the start of announcements - SWT still have it) sounded far more natural, but this new one is truly awful. I hope this won't get rolled out on a large scale.

On the issue of branding, FGW have in the last week installed 3 brand new ticket machines in Devon - 2 at Exeter St Thomas (because apparently that's a priority) and 1 at Torre (which could have done with 2 or 3 itself considering how busy it can get during peak time - it's very busy for an unstaffed station and the revenue protection gestapo will no doubt also earn plenty of bonus now it has ticket buying facilities and so can become a penalty fare station even though those facilities are inadequate to deal with peak demand).

Anyway, these are all still FGW branded machines, even with the GWR rebrand now imminent, I thought they at least would be GWR'd up by now. In fact, apart from the new station timetable sheets (which are GWR branded), there's still no real indication at all that this is coming.

[Alexia]

The PIS I believe you are referring to is a relatively cheap solution to gaining an audible anno as part of the disability requirements for blind persons. Your analysis of it being like Microsoft Sam isn't far off - I believe it is a text-recognition voice program designed to work on non-manned stations which don't have a built in tannoy system. There is a little speaker on the side of the display unit itself. I believe the advantage of this is that messages about late trains (Cancelled, delayed, no services etc) can be sent remotely to the station and the computer will just read them out. Obviously it has its limitations but it is much better than no announcements at all. Your hopes of it not being rolled out on a large scale will be tempered by the fact that it will only feature at unmanned stations and not at larger stations with more sophisticated tannoy systems. I can say for a fact it is operational at Rhiwabon in North Wales, for example.

No idea on rebranding timetable or scale - I still have a FGW namebadge, uniform etc and no idea if I will get a new one any time soon. I have seen GWR branding dripping in elsewhere -- engineering posters etc, and the Twitter feed @GWRHelp has been promoted and the website gwr.com has begun to spring to life. With regards to the machines, one can only imagine they had them available and have transplanted them from elsewhere. I haven't seen the particular models you mention but I cannot imagine it would be too difficult to rebrand them.



EDIT : Are they like this? http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/ ... 000038.jpg If so, they'll probably paint it green, change the inlay and reprogram the software. The pink may be left!

[cwathen]

The PIS I believe you are referring to is a relatively cheap solution to gaining an audible anno as part of the disability requirements for blind persons. Your analysis of it being like Microsoft Sam isn't far off - I believe it is a text-recognition voice program designed to work on non-manned stations which don't have a built in tannoy system. There is a little speaker on the side of the display unit itself. I believe the advantage of this is that messages about late trains (Cancelled, delayed, no services etc) can be sent remotely to the station and the computer will just read them out. Obviously it has its limitations but it is much better than no announcements at all. Your hopes of it not being rolled out on a large scale will be tempered by the fact that it will only feature at unmanned stations and not at larger stations with more sophisticated tannoy systems. I can say for a fact it is operational at Rhiwabon in North Wales, for example.

That makes sense - I assumed EXT had the normal system as it does have proper next train indicators on the platforms rather than just those help point thingies, but on reflection I don't think I've heard it speak since they were installed. Some of these stations of course did used to have a talking PIS (the old 'Digital Doris' system from the W&W days - same voice that still makes automatic safety announcements on ex-W&W units) until they were 'upgraded' to have help points a few years ago, but that's another matter!

EDIT : Are they like this? http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/ ... 000038.jpg If so, they'll probably paint it green, change the inlay and reprogram the software. The pink may be left!

Not those (they are at most of the staffed but non-HSS stations down here), they're a design which I've never seen before, a bit smaller. They do look brand new but of course they could well just be transplanted & cleaned up).

[cwathen]

FGW branding gone from the PIS in FGW stations (currently just a dot appearing where the TOC is supposed to go and no vocal announcement of a TOC at all) whilst on National Rail Enquiries FGW services are now 'Great Western Railway' services (I thought they were resolute that GWR wouldn't actually stand for anything?).