Scottish independence

[james2001]

The Jim Murphy thing was about much more than just one egg being thrown, it was about the organised campaign of intimidation targeting him wherever he went, shouting him down and abusing people who were listening to him. Whether people agree with him or not, he should be allowed to give his views, and people should be allowed to hear them, without the fear of an angry mob descending. That sort of thing is unacceptable regardless of whether it's the Yes or No sides doing it.

[Gavin Scott]

The Jim Murphy thing was about much more than just one egg being thrown, it was about the organised campaign of intimidation targeting him wherever he went, shouting him down and abusing people who were listening to him. Whether people agree with him or not, he should be allowed to give his vuews, and people should be allowed to hear them, without the fear of an angry mob descending.

No, sorry, that's arrant nonsense. There's been horrendous intimidation and attacks from both sides - a pregnant yes supporter was kicked in the stomach, two yes shops have been torched, and a man has been jailed for the physical attacks he attempted on Salmond (in a car). The yes side haven't been on TV claiming this is an "orchestrated series of attacks" because they know it's a small minority of people who are hoodlums.

You may choose to buy Murphys claims. The truth will out. A 43 year old man has been arrested for throwing that egg. Social media is suggesting (look at the pictures for yourself) that he was one of Murphys minders.

Stop being distracted. None of this has anything to do with the vote. This is about where power lies, not about the fringes of any one part of the campaign.

[scottishtv]

No matter how divisive the debate, I'm pretty sure most on both sides agree that Brian Souter is an embarrassment to both himself and our country.

[thegeek]

No matter how divisive the debate, I'm pretty sure most on both sides agree that Brian Souter is an embarrassment to both himself and our country.

I've thought that since his ridiculous Section 28 ballot in 2000. What's he done now?

In my case its not about the status quo being under threat, it is about being sick and tired of hearing about a decision the majority of us in the UK have no say in.

As a Scot in London, I don't get a vote. I'm a wee bit peeved about that but I understand the reasons why I don't.
mdta - the question of Scotland being independent does affect the rest of the UK, but if affects Scotland far more. That's kind of the point of self-determination: you don't let someone else decide it for you.

I think this has been an energising time for Scotland. Everyone I know is totally engaged in politics. It's causing issues to be discussed that haven't seen the light of day ever. <br style="text-shadow: none;"><br style="text-shadow: none;">But the genie isn't ever going to go back in the bottle. No matter the outcome - there is no status quo from here on in.<br style="text-shadow: none;"><br style="text-shadow: none;">That's a good thug.

I'm really glad about this. I hope that, if it's a no, then all the people out there campaigning for change and a better Scotland don't lose their zeal, and keep on fighting for it - whether that's through politics or voluntary organisations or through the kind of creative things that National Collective have been doing.
When was the last time you saw a political campaign bring people together to make something like this?

[scottishtv]

I've thought that since his ridiculous Section 28 ballot in 2000. What's he done now?

He was on a BBC debate programme on Wednesday night suggesting Scotland renege on all it's debts regardless of any agreed currency position as it's not Scotland's debt and we should never have bailed out the banks anyway, he also dismissed "all the numbers being flung around" on both sides despite the stats being discussed being Office of National Statistics and the Scottish Government's own figures. He went on to claim Scotland faces less threat from terror and extremism, and finished by claiming he knew many backbench MPs from all parties who all agreed there will be a currency union after independence. When pressed, he then said had really spoken to one Tory MP, and followed this up by pulling a funny face. Even Nicola Sturgeon winced, but then her party has accepted over £2m in donations from the guy so just had to roll with it. He did earn a UK Trending moment on Twitter though, which I understand is an important barometer of things these days.

This aside, in my experiemce - I've not really had any new, original conversations with any of my yes or no voting friends or family. Indeed, I'm saddened by how few have even read the white paper (okay, it's a big document, but the short summary version isn't too bad). That is what we're being asked to vote for. They seem to be trying to work out how to vote based on noise from the campaigns and shouty confrontational TV shows.

Call me old=fashioned, but I don't think this is political engagement at all.

[Gavin Scott]

This aside, in my experiemce - I've not really had any new, original conversations with any of my yes or no voting friends or family. Indeed, I'm saddened by how few have even read the white paper (okay, it's a big document, but the short summary version isn't too bad). That is what we're being asked to vote for. They seem to be trying to work out how to vote based on noise from the campaigns and shouty confrontational TV shows.

Call me old=fashioned, but I don't think this is political engagement at all.

Do you leave the house?

[martindtanderson]

mdta - the question of Scotland being independent does affect the rest of the UK, but if affects Scotland far more. That's kind of the point of self-determination: you don't let someone else decide it for you.

I don't disagree that the decision on Scotland becoming independent is for the Scottish people alone (and with my Dad's parents being from Glasgow, I feel some connection).

But how that independence is constructed should not be for Scotland alone. How "assets" are divided needs to be a joint discussion. Things such as the currency, the BBC, and Border controls for instance, will greatly affect both sides of the border.

I do not trust Alex Salmond to play a major role in those negotiations, and I think any "controversial" arrangements need to be put to the remainder of the UK to decide on. This divorce is not in response to an actual event, but is at the "whim"/behest of one party - so there should not be any punitive aspect to "who gets what".

[Charlie Wells]

An interesting point mentioned in a recent Private Eye is that the Yes campaign hopes that an independent Scotland would still remain connected to the national grid. It was mentioned that it was only relatively recently that Scotland was connected up to the grid, having previously been separate, and that it wouldn't be that difficult to unlink it once more. As for what would actually happen if Scotland gained independence is anyone's guess, as it's just one of the many uncertainties.

On a light hearted note I also spotted this in the previous issue...

[scottishtv]

I see the truth is out.

[thegeek]

But how that independence is constructed should not be for Scotland alone. How "assets" are divided needs to be a joint discussion. Things such as the currency, the BBC, and Border controls for instance, will greatly affect both sides of the border.

I do not trust Alex Salmond to play a major role in those negotiations, and I think any "controversial" arrangements need to be put to the remainder of the UK to decide on. This divorce is not in response to an actual event, but is at the "whim"/behest of one party - so there should not be any punitive aspect to "who gets what".

As you say though, it's a negotiation. Yes, Alex Salmond will be making demands (which you may not agree on), but representatives of HM Government will be on the other side of the table. And they'll be acting in the interests of the people who democratically elected them.

[Gavin Scott]

mdta - the question of Scotland being independent does affect the rest of the UK, but if affects Scotland far more. That's kind of the point of self-determination: you don't let someone else decide it for you.

I don't disagree that the decision on Scotland becoming independent is for the Scottish people alone (and with my Dad's parents being from Glasgow, I feel some connection).

But how that independence is constructed should not be for Scotland alone. How "assets" are divided needs to be a joint discussion. Things such as the currency, the BBC, and Border controls for instance, will greatly affect both sides of the border.

I do not trust Alex Salmond to play a major role in those negotiations, and I think any "controversial" arrangements need to be put to the remainder of the UK to decide on. This divorce is not in response to an actual event, but is at the "whim"/behest of one party - so there should not be any punitive aspect to "who gets what".

Your hatred of Salmond is well known - despite you not being able to quote a single "English hate" comment.

Have you even done 2 minutes of research on any of this? You sound like a damned fool.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/About/Govern ... dependence

Read the link before replying.