The Pope

[James H]

Tomorrow morning, the Pope arrives in Scotland for a short tour of the UK, kicking off in Edinburgh with a royal greeting, followed by a mass in Glasgow. With commentators speculating over poor ticket sales, however, and the spectre of the recent revelations about systemic abuse within the Catholic Church, how do you feel about Benedict XVI coming to the UK?

My tuppence worth:

I am, at large, apathetic towards the Pope's visit. The man is seemingly a figurehead leader of a church whose popularity seems to dwindle daily. I have very few feelings towards the enigma; the fact that he is here, more than anything else, makes me feel that the Catholics among us seem less interested in God than the man who has him on speed-dial to the Vatican. Besides - this Pope has far more to worry about. His Hitler Youth involvement has been noted (however, is this not a given for someone who grew up in 1930s-40s Germany?) and his views towards homosexuality, women and safe sex are all fairly standard, if not a little more radical than most, for the Catholic church.

What I feel we should remember is that a religion is free to think whatever it likes. If I set up a religion tomorrow which bans people with ginger and black hair, is this not acceptable? I'm not saying I agree with the Catholic church on any of these issues. I'm saying that they're free to be as twattish as possible about it, as I am armed with the knowledge that I don't actually give a stuff what their opinion is. That's my position on a lot of religion. Catholicism included. Besides - their positions on other issues are far more questionable.

The abuse question has been raised a lot over the past few years. And it seriously dents the church's moral authority. How can one be preached to by a priest who's abused young boys? The systemic nature of the abuse (some priests seem to have taken it as a right and a privilege) astounds me. There should be ultimate transparency here, as far as I'm concerned. As I said before - it is none of my concern what the church's opinion is. But committing offences and scarring children for life is a seriously bad thing, and the full extent of what has occurred should be made fully public, and those involved not exonerated, but removed, charged and jailed (once full evidence is provided, naturally). It is this current Pope's failure to deal with this that probably makes me the most apathetic over his visit. It makes me feel he has little power or will other than to those who adore him, and ultimately makes him little more than a bloke in a frock to me.

[James H]

Oh - and add this lovely bloke to the mix:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11317441

Charming.

[all new Phil]

Nothing says 'faith in God' like a bullet-proof Pope-mobile!

[Jenny]

Lovely to see a senile old reactionary shoot himself in the foot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11332515

What a twat he is.

[Neil Jones]

(this post is most likely going to be satirical and is not meant to cause offence on any grounds whatsoever)


There's something about being Pope that is sort of.. ironic given current workplace tendencies.

The average age of somebody becoming Pope is about 70 years old. Now if you were 70 years old the last thing you'd probably want to do is wear a skull cap, a white veil and fly all over the world waving at everybody and kissing anything that moves. Yet if you get enough votes from the election after the previous Pope dies and you don't declare pretty much from the off that you're not interested, you're effectively in straight away.

It is pretty much a guaranteed position for anybody lucky enough to get into it after the age of 65. Any other company on the planet and you'll be on the scrapheap. Yet the poor man is effectively run into the ground, with all that travel, waving, praying and mass-hosting. Surely it would be classed as, I suppose, OAP-abuse? For goodness sake he's tried to jack it all in three times before but he wasn't allowed to step down!

[Chie]

I couldn't help but smile this afternoon when a devout Catholic on BBC News said atheists should stop telling people how to live their lives.

[DVB Cornwall]

Lovely to see a senile old reactionary shoot himself in the foot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11332515

What a twat he is.

Perhaps you'd like to elaborate as to why you consider the context of his remarks as 'shooting himself in the foot'. I read them clearly to infer that if the Nazi party had not actively discouraged religious activities, then those in Germany might have using their traditions of Lutheran Protestantism and Roman Catholicism moderated even curtailed the actions of the state in the Jewish Holocaust and other relatated murderous persecutions. The Humanist quoted is twisting the argument to attempt to benefit his own cause.

[Inspector Sands]

Perhaps you'd like to elaborate as to why you consider the context of his remarks as 'shooting himself in the foot'. I read them clearly to infer that if the Nazi party had not actively discouraged religious activities then those in Germany might have using their traditions of Lutheran Protestantism and Roman Catholicism moderated even curtailed the actions of the state in the Jewish Holocaust and other relatated murderous persecutions.

It is certainly true that the Nazi's did associate themselves with and canvass votes from the Roman Catholic Church:
http://www.secularism.org.uk/hitlers-el ... s-the.html

It does smack of desperation from a religious organisation with dwindling support in Western Europe to associate non-believers with Nazis, when Hitler himself was a Catholic and his party used posters like the above to drum up support.

For him to associate non-believers with the Nazi's is quite frankly insulting.

[GavBelfast]

I can't help but have a problem with an individual that heads a church which, by word and deed, has taken a stronger line against gay people, would-be women priests and those who would support their ordination, and the use of barrier contraception as a means of curtailing the spread of disease, than it has against former Nazis, Holocaust deniers, and those who have in any way been involved (directly, by omission or commission) in the most vile acts of child sex and physical abuse.

[Inspector Sands]

Here's the speech made by Richard Dawkins at yesterday's Protest the Pope event. Absolutely superb stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_0kFU7IfPM

[DavidPeterMartin]

The Pope's visit was a big success.
Previous Orange Lodge posters on this forum have suggested that it would not.
Crowd levels were at the same level as the 1982 Papal Visit.
The Catholic Church does not condone child abuse or holocaust denial.
Anti -Papist layabouts such as Dr. Ian Paisley, Gavin Scott, Peter Tatchell and Stephen Fry should be ashamed of themselves.