Next Labour Leader....

Chie
Posts: 979
Joined: Fri 31 Aug, 2007 05.03

Gavin Scott wrote:I'm hearing an awful lot of what you think of Labour, but they're not the government any more. So far we've seen the beginning of the dismantling of the NHS (private consortia from America spending tax money, operating for profit),
GPs will be able to commission private consortia if they so wish (they're not obliged to do so). It's nothing like the dismantling or privatisation of the NHS.
Gavin Scott wrote:the abolition of the Film Council, and the closure of expert groups on HIV/AIDS and cancer - but not to worry, Cameron is planning tax cuts for the middle classes before the next election.
I can think of hundreds of things which are more important than the Film Council. It's nice to have, but it's not a necessity.

My understanding is that functions currently undertaken by unaccountable medical quangos will be incorporated into the NHS.

You could argue that by not taking so much money off them, tax cuts will give the middle-class more money to spend in the economy, thereby promoting economic growth. However, my opinion will depend on what the economic and social situation is in four years' time. Until I know that, I really can't say.
User avatar
Gavin Scott
Admin
Posts: 6442
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 13.16
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Chie wrote:GPs will be able to commission private consortia if they so wish (they're not obliged to do so). It's nothing like the dismantling or privatisation of the NHS.
You're wrong. Once you put spending power into private companies hands - who operate for profit - you are fundamentally changing the NHS from a non-profit organsiation into a commercial one. You will NEVER be able to put the genie back into the bottle, as from the TOP DOWN the NHS will operate as a private enterprise.

Those GPs who do not "commission" private companies (who, incidentally, are from the US and helped bank roll the tory party campaign) will have to set up their own private companies. Either way, their incentive will naturally be profit for shareholders or company directors.

At what stage during the election campaign did they announce this fundamental change to our NHS? Why was it rushed through within 30 days of coming to office?
I can think of hundreds of things which are more important than the Film Council. It's nice to have, but it's not a necessity.
I can only comment on the plans that they have already announced - these are ones they have mentioned, but there are many more to follow. I'll keep you up to date, don't worry.

The Film Council, by the way, helped us to produce a slew of pictures which gained the industry hundreds of millions of pounds. The film industry has been particularly strong in the last decade - thats a lot of jobs and a lot of tax paid into the country. "Nice to have" shows a lack or awareness on your part on the bottom line net results that this one particular body brought to the table.
My understanding is that functions currently undertaken by unaccountable medical quangos will be incorporated into the NHS.
Again, you are wildly wrong. The expert groups are not quangos (which in any event are not-for-profit bodies), and their work has been instrumental in devising treatments - extending the lives of thousands and improving wellbeing for those who suffer. These are not responsibilities that can be absorbed into existing hospitals - they were the best in their field, and unquestionably valuable to the NHS and society.
You could argue that by not taking so much money off them, tax cuts will give the middle-class more money to spend in the economy, thereby promoting economic growth. However, my opinion will depend on what the economic and social situation is in four years' time. Until I know that, I really can't say.
Why would anyone even attempt to argue for tax cuts for the middle classes, when there are swinging cuts being made to essential services? Why would you act as a mouthpiece (which to be fair you're hanging back from doing), when we'll see police and health budgets cut by up to 40%?

These are ideological cuts - it is clear that Britain was never going to go the way of Turkey or Iceland - so to slash and burn those valuable services is unjustifiable.
User avatar
Gavin Scott
Admin
Posts: 6442
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 13.16
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

nodnirG kraM wrote:Wasn't aware you were even a candidate.
After the way I go on? I find that very hard to believe.
User avatar
Nick Harvey
God
Posts: 4147
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 22.26
Location: Deepest Wiltshire
Contact:

barcode wrote:there are plans to rise tax freash hole.
Now there's a damn fine idea. Should make road repairs a heck of a lot quicker.
James H
Posts: 1276
Joined: Tue 20 Jul, 2004 14.49
Location: In your endo

Sorry - I nipped out to welcome new meat into our wonderful group of acting luvvies.

How do I feel about the new parliament? Hmm. We've seen 100 days, and a lot of posturing, but no definitive action. Did I get what I wanted? No. David Milliband's still in his seat, the smarmy twat. I voted on a local level, not national.

Notionally though, my vote was rather Tory anyway... Labour wasn't sticking to its roots, and (as I've already said on here) my family's been fucked over by Labour on a scale you wouldn't believe. More tomorrow when I've recovered from tonight. Goodnight everybody!
User avatar
Gavin Scott
Admin
Posts: 6442
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 13.16
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

James H wrote:Sorry - I nipped out to welcome new meat into our wonderful group of acting luvvies.

How do I feel about the new parliament? Hmm. We've seen 100 days, and a lot of posturing, but no definitive action. Did I get what I wanted? No. David Milliband's still in his seat, the smarmy twat. I voted on a local level, not national.

Notionally though, my vote was rather Tory anyway... Labour wasn't sticking to its roots, and (as I've already said on here) my family's been fucked over by Labour on a scale you wouldn't believe. More tomorrow when I've recovered from tonight. Goodnight everybody!
That was rubbish. I hope you were pished.

There has been "definitive action" - I wrote it out above.

You banged on about being failed by labour before the election. Can we now get to whether or not this is the tory party you intended us to have?
User avatar
DVB Cornwall
Posts: 519
Joined: Fri 24 Jun, 2005 21.42

So how did he perform in his first set piece, as a Conservative, didn't really scare me quite liked it actually, for those who haven't seen my digest on FB here it is ....

Damn good speech from Ed Miliband, no barnstorming, no invective, honest, bit iffy on the economics though, mild attack on Cameron, yes mild, unlike the Blair/Brown era.

Addressed the immigration issue well, good comments on the power of Unions, Woodley looked horrified, attacked the bankers, expected, support for benefits changes, living wage mooted, 'labour the party of liberty'- No more 90day detention ideas, Drawing lines under Iraq - a wrong war, No favouritism for Israel, support for AV and Lords reform, support for Ken Livingstone, Ken Clarke and Theresa May(perhaps not all to the same degree).

Speaking to issues rather than dogma, Climate Change highlighted, Labour the party of Optimism.

A sound start.

One of the best Labour leader speeches I've heard.
Image
User avatar
Sput
Posts: 7543
Joined: Wed 20 Aug, 2003 19.57

Hope his tone makes PMQs a bit less shouty. I demand Bercow's idea for it being a more respectful set of exchanges be implemented
Knight knight
Square Eyes
Posts: 630
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 13.38

DVB Cornwall wrote:So how did he perform in his first set piece, as a Conservative, didn't really scare me quite liked it actually, for those who haven't seen my digest on FB here it is ....

Damn good speech from Ed Miliband, no barnstorming, no invective, honest, bit iffy on the economics though, mild attack on Cameron, yes mild, unlike the Blair/Brown era.

Addressed the immigration issue well, good comments on the power of Unions, Woodley looked horrified, attacked the bankers, expected, support for benefits changes, living wage mooted, 'labour the party of liberty'- No more 90day detention ideas, Drawing lines under Iraq - a wrong war, No favouritism for Israel, support for AV and Lords reform, support for Ken Livingstone, Ken Clarke and Theresa May(perhaps not all to the same degree).

Speaking to issues rather than dogma, Climate Change highlighted, Labour the party of Optimism.

A sound start.

One of the best Labour leader speeches I've heard.
Maybe, but he's a terrible orator. Really dull.

I'm seeing shades of IDS. Next he'll be telling us not to underestimate the determination of a quiet man.
User avatar
DVB Cornwall
Posts: 519
Joined: Fri 24 Jun, 2005 21.42

Square Eyes wrote:
Maybe, but he's a terrible orator. Really dull.

I'm seeing shades of IDS. Next he'll be telling us not to underestimate the determination of a quiet man.
Substance over Style, might be appreciated by the public after years of the opposite?

One further interesting point that struck me twenty mins after the speech finished, not a single reference whatsoever to the Liberal Democrats, would love to know why not, and am wondering if there's any subtext to that omission.
Image
User avatar
iSon
Moderator
Posts: 1632
Joined: Fri 15 Aug, 2003 23.24
Location: London

Square Eyes wrote:
DVB Cornwall wrote:So how did he perform in his first set piece, as a Conservative, didn't really scare me quite liked it actually, for those who haven't seen my digest on FB here it is ....

Damn good speech from Ed Miliband, no barnstorming, no invective, honest, bit iffy on the economics though, mild attack on Cameron, yes mild, unlike the Blair/Brown era.

Addressed the immigration issue well, good comments on the power of Unions, Woodley looked horrified, attacked the bankers, expected, support for benefits changes, living wage mooted, 'labour the party of liberty'- No more 90day detention ideas, Drawing lines under Iraq - a wrong war, No favouritism for Israel, support for AV and Lords reform, support for Ken Livingstone, Ken Clarke and Theresa May(perhaps not all to the same degree).

Speaking to issues rather than dogma, Climate Change highlighted, Labour the party of Optimism.

A sound start.

One of the best Labour leader speeches I've heard.
Maybe, but he's a terrible orator. Really dull.

I'm seeing shades of IDS. Next he'll be telling us not to underestimate the determination of a quiet man.
I think it was a fairly safe speech and I think given the criticism he has faced already that he wanted to play it straight down the line. I think the IDS tag is a little unfair - I don't think there's any comparison. IDS has a hopeless leader who was elected for completely the wrong reasons. Although, who knows maybe we will be saying that about Ed in a few months time.

Back to the speech, it wasn't exactly heavy on policy but then at the moment without knowing who your shadow cabinet is going to be, it's difficult to make any broad promises. I'm pleased there wasn't too much attacking of the coalition - in fact the Lib Dems barely got a mention at all - it was all mainly aimed at David Cameron.

It will be interesting to see how Ed performs over the next few weeks as he takes on PMQs, is able to react to political stories away from conference and then forms his shadow cabinet. His first few weeks undoubtedly will be shaped by the decision of his brother. If he chooses to stand for re-election to the shadow cabinet then he poses a risk as the press will try to find divisions. But if he walks away then it could be seen as a vote of no confidence. I personally don't believe that because after all, losing out on the job that everyone was telling you that you were going to get can't be easy. And do you want to serve - always thinking "I could do that."

Personally it would be a great loss as I REALLY rate David Miliband and I would rather have his influence in the shadow cabinet.
Good Lord!
Post Reply