I Hate Roundabouts

[cdd]

OK, full disclosure here: I am a bad driver. Probably the worst driver in the world. Nevertheless, I have somehow ended up with a driving license and have been putting it to good use for the best part of a year.

And in any case, I feel reasonably safe on 'normal' roads, and, indeed, on normal (symmetrical etc) roundabouts. Huge, traffic-light controlled things, not so much - like at Elephant and Castle, Vauxhall Cross, Marble Arch (sorry, I can only think of London examples).

Hence I appeal to this metromob of competent drivers for some advice! I'd be grateful for whatever general tips you can offer but my specific worries are:

1. One feels you should be able to start in one lane and go all the way around, never changing lanes if your choice is correct. The problem is, if you don't know the roundabout, you cAn't be sure of which entry lane is for your exit.

2. What are you meant to do hwhen your exit is coming up imminently, but there is heavy traffic to the left ('outside') of you? Clearly indicate left, but slowing down infuriates other drivers. Are those outside meant to give way to you? Is it acceptable to actually stop on a roundabout to complete a manoeuvure?

3. Point 2 would be somewhat easier if these mega roundabouts actually HAD lanes. As it stands many of them, like marble arch, either have large lane-free (wide road) sections, or the lanes are treated like they don't exit. So I become convinced I am about to crash into soMeone by changing notional lanes. Also everyone seems to drive very fast on these roundabouts which confuses me. What then?

4. Supposing you end up in a lane which leads to an exit you, umm, don't want to exit out of. Now I know you might say 'tough, you picked the wrong lane, you exit'. However in London, a wrong exit may lead to a congestion charge thou were trying to avoid, and £8 is a heavy charge just for missing a lane. What to do? Stop and indicate right? (I have tried this and it went down seriously badly).

5. Are there any other unspoken 'not in the highway code' rules about monolithic roundabouts that I'd like to know? Things like lane 'squeezing', unofficial lane changing, dealing with roundabouts where the lanes 'spiral' outwards or other... Tips?

Sorry for this outpouring of driver insecurity but I really find these roundabouts difficult and dangerous (especially when I'm on them!) and would like some helpful words to stop me dreading them as everyone else I've asked has been useless (there, that should encourage you!!)

[ps: ironically I have actually been to the Magic roundabout in Swindon, and didn't find that difficult at all. Can't explain it]

[rob]

You might want to avoid Basingstoke then

[Pete]

When they work properly they're far quicker than faffing about waiting for lights to change.
Taking into account the one utter mess, and the other utter death trap that have recently replaced roundabouts in Dundee I'd take roundabouts any day.

I appreicate the thing is not finished in this photo but observe this hell hole.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... 41,,0,8.45

this was previously a double roundabout that worked fine. Now due to the shoddy light placement you have people flying out and slamming brakes on everywhere due to the sheer inability to tell what light is your light.

When sitting where the first blue arrows are on that photo, for example, the light is not in fact the one you see directly out of your window, which is actually telling traffic 80yrds ahread to do something. No you light is the tall one next to you, that required you to snap your neck out of place to see it, or there's one connected but is in a completely random part of the junction so you think its for people from the left.

Adding to this the bizzare anti-glare shutter things on the lights I am very surprised nobody has died on this yet.

[all new Phil]

I know exactly where you're coming from with this. I think I'm a pretty good driver, yet I still hate roundabouts. Problems sometimes stem from a lack of clarity as to which lane you should be in for which exit, particularly on a big roundabout with an unusual shape.

The roundabout near where I live is a pain sometimes. It has a main road going into it, the continuation of which is the exit off the roundabout at about 1 o'clock. There are 2 exits before it and 1 after it, and the road is only 1 lane width each way. You therefore have people approaching the roundabout in each lane, both heading towards the same exit, with no obvious indication as to which lane is correct. They've recently painted arrows onto the road, with the left lane having a forward arrow, and the right lane having an arrow pointing right. This means absolutely nothing!

Was in Plymouth last week and that was full of annoying roundabouts that confused me, but then Plymouth is just annoying in general.

[Sput]

I find roundabouts make absolutely no sense when you try and think about them yet they just seem to magically work provided you're in the right lane.

And I'm probably a worse driver than all of you, being the only person in history to pass my test "On the benefit of the doubt" as though such a thing exists.

[Bail]

You can't have this thread without mentioning Swindon.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon)

With regards to Chris's comments,

1. One feels you should be able to start in one lane and go all the way around, never changing lanes if your choice is correct. The problem is, if you don't know the roundabout, you cAn't be sure of which entry lane is for your exit.

Yes and no, my usual logic is straight ahead or left = left lane, right = right lane, then move left after the left exit etc.. Some roundable have a "sprial out" that you mention which I quite like because it forces you, and other drives in the correct lane. Assuming you started in the right one that is.

2. What are you meant to do hwhen your exit is coming up imminently, but there is heavy traffic to the left ('outside') of you? Clearly indicate left, but slowing down infuriates other drivers. Are those outside meant to give way to you? Is it acceptable to actually stop on a roundabout to complete a manoeuvure?

I had this happen only yesterday. I think it's dependant on the road, you, the car, and the car in your way. I was joining a motorway to find a HGV on my left, I knew it would swing wide and end up hitting me so I opted to go round the roundabout again, I had a lane and could of gone but sometimes its safer not to, likewise I could of slowed/stopped but I think this is one of the "unwritten rules" that you don't stop on a roundable (unless traffic, lights, etc dictate). But the general rule, if an exit has one lane, and you're not in it, go round again.

3. Point 2 would be somewhat easier if these mega roundabouts actually HAD lanes. As it stands many of them, like marble arch, either have large lane-free (wide road) sections, or the lanes are treated like they don't exit. So I become convinced I am about to crash into soMeone by changing notional lanes. Also everyone seems to drive very fast on these roundabouts which confuses me. What then?

I very rarely drive in London, so can't say for sure, but I'd say "markerless" roundabouts are not the norm, most have lanes and some I know have "mini markers" at entrances and exits to the roundabout to help.

4. Supposing you end up in a lane which leads to an exit you, umm, don't want to exit out of. Now I know you might say 'tough, you picked the wrong lane, you exit'. However in London, a wrong exit may lead to a congestion charge thou were trying to avoid, and £8 is a heavy charge just for missing a lane. What to do? Stop and indicate right? (I have tried this and it went down seriously badly).

Tricky. Generally I think its acceptable to go round a roundabout entirely in the outside lane regardless of the exit, assume its not one of the ones that forces you off at a junction, in which case you have to exit. "Standard road postitioning" says left lane for left, straight etc.

5. Are there any other unspoken 'not in the highway code' rules about monolithic roundabouts that I'd like to know? Things like lane 'squeezing', unofficial lane changing, dealing with roundabouts where the lanes 'spiral' outwards or other... Tips?

Not stopping is a good one, indicate, people don't indicate enough and they really should. If in doubt go around again, and the general rule of left land = left / straight right land = right, merge into outside lane after 2nd exit...

[cdd]

Wow thanks for the responses! Really helpful actually, at lesat it's pleasing to know I'm not the only one who finds them a dangerous nightmare. HGV's outside you are a complete nightmare and it's reassuring to know there's nothing wrong with going around them several times! I still maintain that the logic about "right lane = going right" is not accurate, I know of one roundabout where the middle lane is actually the best lane for a right turn and a right lane takes you past it - despite a right-facing arrow on the road!

[Ebeneezer Scrooge]

Tricky. Generally I think its acceptable to go round a roundabout entirely in the outside lane regardless of the exit, assume its not one of the ones that forces you off at a junction, in which case you have to exit. "Standard road postitioning" says left lane for left, straight etc.

Earlier on in this post, you said that left lane is for left/straight on and right lane is for turning right - Having got my lincense within the last 2 years, it's all particularly fresh in my head (that, and being an engineer makes me a pedant).
In the left lane, you should only ever pass 1 exit (hence the left/straight on thing), unless of course, it's marked differently on the road or signs approaching the roundabout (often the minor exits from a roundabout are not considered exits officially and don't count... or something.
When exiting from anything past the second exit, you should attempt to spiral outwards toward your exit. Once the cars have left the roundabout for the exit before yours, move accross as this will discourage drivers from joining in front of you to block your exit.
This is slightly different once on traffic light controlled roundabouts (ie the roundabouts that have lights on them, rather than (or as well as) approaching them. Left hand lane at the lights should only be for the next exit and the right hand lane for all other exits (unless otherwise marked).

However, it is never acceptable or safe to go all the way around the roundabout in the left hand lane. Doing so will only disrupt traffic using the roundabout correctly and risk your car being t-boned!

I was instructed that if I found myself in the wrong lane, I should (regardless of the outcome) continue as the lane dictates. If that means leaving early, leave early. If it's safe to go around again, go around again.

And don't forget to indicate your exit too - as a cyclist, I've come to close for comfort to being knocked off my bike because a driver was too lazy to put their indicator on to let me know they were using the exit I was passing.

Incorrect use of roundabouts is my bugbear!

[Gavin Scott]

Blimey I think I'll stick to not driving.

[marksi]

In NI most roads leading to roundabouts have lane markings showing on approach which lane you should be in for each of the exits.

If there's room the road will split into 3 at the entrance to the roundabout for left/straight on/right, if there is not room for 3 lanes it's always left lane for turning left, right lane for straight on/right.

At complex junctions the lane you should be in is also indicated on the signs and on the road.

[Pete]

What is the general concensus for indicators when going straight on? I realised recently I've become one of those people who doesn't indicate at all when going straight on but otherwise does it properly. Remembering to switch to left upon exit on the third exit is another tricky one.